workplace wellbeing with wellwise in the UAE
The ‘Green & Healthy Places’ podcast series takes a deep-dive into the role of sustainability, wellbeing and community in office real estate, residential property, hotels and educational facilities today.
Episode 28 takes us to Dubai talking to Bobbi Hartshorne, Co-Founder and Chief Wellbeing Officer at WellWise, a UK and UAE based business that takes an integrated diagnostics approach to delivering value via office wellbeing programs for corporations large and small.
Our conversation covers:
Bobbi’s experience creating a framework for student wellbeing via an innovative accommodation offer
WellWise’s Research driven diagnostic system approach to workplace wellbeing
their Employee engagement process to build a culture around wellbeing
their network of specialists providing bespoke solutions covering everything from sleep quality, to office design and environmental health
the growing importance of mental health support at work
the subtle but important difference between wellness and wellbeing
the opportunities in the UAE market for workplace wellness
Workplace wellbeing insights from our conversation
Workplace wellbeing improves almost anything that a CEO cares about ,from productivity to engagement, job satisfaction and creativity
organizations with high workplace wellbeing have 2% - 3% better performance on the stock market, better customer loyalty, and better sales performance
when you have a high wellbeing workforce, everything else tends to fall into place
in order to attract people back to these places we call offices, we're having to get very creative about what they look like, how they serve us, what function they fulfill and how they enable success
wellbeing has a broader and deeper meaning than wellness as it incorporates life satisfaction, accomplishment, motivation, purpose, engagement
GUEST / Bobbi Hartshorne of WellWise Workplace Wellbeing UAE Dubai
HOST / Matt Morley - wellbeing champion Espana Spain
FULL TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS COURTESY OF OTTER.AI - EXCUSE TYPOS!
Matt Morley
Okay, let's do this. If I may, I'm going to start by going back in time a little bit, because something came out of your CV as I was doing my research for this conversation. And it's a, it's a sector that seems to be really going through a transformation at the moment. I know it's no longer what you do. But I did want to just pick your brains a little bit on the student accommodation space. And you had a role a set of well being for global student accommodation group. And really the retargeting generation said, as I see it, and it's a dynamic sector. So you're combining wellness with student accommodation? Like what did that give you? And how did that go on to influence where you are today running various workplace wellness businesses?
Bobbi Hartshorne
Yeah. Well, it was a really interesting journey. The thing about that role at GSA was that I created it for myself. And so it was really the first of its kind in the private built student accommodation environment, although there had been similar roles in universities. And so it was a very steep learning curve. And it was really in response to a growing concern about the well being of students and the types of issues that were increasingly coming up in our residences, but also just around universities in general.
Bobbi Hartshorne
what I learned was that, for students, wellbeing was relatively universal. There were nine key areas that we were finding were the constant sources of stress or the opportunities to improve wellbeing. And they were financial, cultural, physical, mental, academic, spiritual, career and environmental. And it was this extreme change and this transition that young people are going through when they go from university, or when they go from school into university, that really creates this instability, where stress and low well being and challenges can fester.
Bobbi Hartshorne
the degree to which an individual has the ability to cope with those to address them, to reduce them varies massively depending on who they are, where they come from, what experiences they've had in the past. And so whilst we were able to build a framework for wellbeing that was fairly consistent across the world, how each individual student engaged with that or benefited from it really did vary. And there was certainly no one size fits all.
Bobbi Hartshorne
it dawned on me that these young people who were really quite different to the types of students that we'd had previously sort of the millennials, and the way they behaved and what they valued, and what got them motivated, and what stressed them was very different. And it dawned on me that those young people were going to enter the workforce, and that they were going to present so interesting and new challenges to employers, in the same way that they had presented new and interesting challenges to the student accommodation sector. And so I got really into looking at that transition, again, that vulnerable period of transition out of university and into the workplace. And I started to look at how existing working practices were maybe not going to align particularly well with this new generation, and maybe some of the challenges that were going to crop up.
Bobbi Hartshorne
And it wasn't long before we started to see burnout in mid 20 year olds, who had been in the workplace less than 10 years. It wasn't long before we started to see employers very concerned about mental health issues for younger employees, and a real change in pattern in terms of what those young employees were seeking from their employers. And it was way beyond cash, it just was so much more than financial gain. And so this is really where my interest in the workplace began. And then COVID cropped around the corner, gave us all a bit of a fright. And that was really an interesting experience because putting a workplace under an exceptionally extreme set of circumstances like COVID. And you tend to bring out either the best or the worst or a mixture of both. And so I really then started to observe what happens in a workplace under extreme circumstances and what happens to employees and leaders and managers under extreme work, workplace environments. And so that really was what gave gave this sort of leeway for me to take the take the jump out of the student accommodation world and into the workplace world because There were a lot of similarities and crossovers that I could draw on. But there was also a whole world of stuff I was interested in that I wanted to explore further.
Matt Morley
So am I right in thinking then with the student accommodation, you were to use the terminology from the hotel world of you're dealing with hardware and software. So you're doing both with training , teaching the mental game, as well as the physical game. So the spaces in which the students were spending their time sleeping at night, but they also meant providing, if you'd like more operational solutions to keeping them sane and healthy and positive and upbeat, right?
Bobbi Hartshorne
Absolutely. And it's quite strange, actually, from the physical perspective because universities for a really long time have been doing a lot to support students across all of those pillars that I mentioned earlier. But the one area that always seem to be neglected, or that was never really optimized was the accommodation, whether that was University owned accommodation, or whether it was privately owned accommodation. And it struck me that the nature of your home is the place where you're going to be engaging with your personal studies where you're going to have your downtime, where you're going to be maybe alone in your room, are the times when the challenges are probably going to rear their ugly heads. And, and it was really important for us to make sure that our teams on in the residences knew how to support students in that environment. But increasingly, that as we were upgrading residences, as we were building new residences, how we laid those structures out how we built community, how we identified whether students were isolated or behaving differently to maybe their normal patterns, that all became part of it. So yeah, absolutely operational and physical,
Matt Morley
There seem to be just so many parallels between the two, if you were to switch out what you've just described in the last couple of minutes, but instead of describing students, we would describe the staff or employees. And in fact, a lot of those same issues can come up or have been coming up, especially over the last few years around stress and anxiety and what have you.
Matt Morley
So you then transition across into the next phase of your career, you moved to launch your own business in October 2020, the end surrender, and there you're focusing more as I understand it on sort of a consultancy role for workplace wellbeing, right?
Bobbi Hartshorne
Absolutely. It just felt like , my natural transition. And my passion had really gone into that space, not that I wasn't still passionate about the student space, but I felt like I'd done a huge amount in the student space and there were great people there who could carry that on and evolve it further
Bobbi Hartshorne
I moved into the workplace and how the parallels as you've already alluded to, could transition across. I could see in the same way as five years previously, I could see that the university sector was struggling with student wellbeing the exact same was happening now with employees, employers struggling with employee well being, I was also observing a lot of snake oil solutions, and a lot of well washing, we call it and they're in your field, you have greenwashing. And this idea that it kind of wasn't very authentic that a lot of the work and practice going on in this space was at a very surface level, plaster over the cracks, put a nice picture on your website and kind of say that you're doing well being but as time went on, it became very apparent to organisations that that really wasn't enough. And it wasn't getting to the heart of the actual challenges and unpacking and really helping them to address the impact that a poor wellbeing workforce creates for an for an organization. And that was really where I wanted to step in with a much more rigorous and, I guess, scientific approach to wellbeing. But I was held back in doing that because what I didn't have that I wanted was a strong research platform. I kind of knew all the ingredients that were required through my own experience and through all the research I had done, but I wasn't able to get those articulated in a meaningful way because I didn't have a research platform. And so really not wanting to be just another snake oil charmer or just another well washer I set about trying to solve that riddle and now It was really when Tim Gatlin and worldwise came into the picture.
Matt Morley
I think it's a crucial point, because as you've suggested, typically, when going in on these projects, when there's there is a problem, by the time you get to the mechanic something's gone wrong with the car, so often by the time consultants brought in, right, if you've got people complaining, or the mood and the, the atmosphere in the office is really turned negative, or whatever it might be, something's going wrong here, I think it's quite rare that it's sort of anticipation, it anticipates, potential need, typically, you're kind of coming a little bit late to the game. So you have to deliver on the data and the numbers. And it's just, it's not enough to pen some nice words and hope everything works out. So you've then took this sort of far more data driven and research driven approach with Well, why so where you're currently clearly spending a lot of your time and energy and it looks to be an interesting new addition. So why don't we dig into that a little bit? So in terms of like, what that brings to the market and the needs that it's addressing? How are you resolving some of the issues that are out there at the moment?
Bobbi Hartshorne
So look, Tim, my business partner, Tim Gatlin, he already had a really, really strong research platform, that funny enough he was using in the student space, which is how Tim and I know each other, but he was also using it in other industries as well. And so I knew that that platform, and the strength of the tech involved in that platform was exactly what we were going to need to unpack the complexity of what we now call the workplace wellbeing network. And so we set about understanding, building on our knowledge, understanding what currently employers were purchasing in this space, what issues were they trying to target? What solutions were already on the market, what research was already out there, what questions were being asked. And we started to spot some key patterns. And these kind of worse split into they were either looking at what was happening with the employees themselves. So why are our employees not engaged? How do we build resilience? Why are our employees eating a terrible diet? Why are they not sleeping properly, or they would then look at organizational factors, although there was a lot less of that going on, but you would say, you know, is our management style appropriate for a modern workforce are our rewards and recognitions keeping up with the latest trends and desires of our employees. And so you have these kind of two sides of workplace wellbeing. But what you didn't really have was anybody who was working out how the two fit together, how they impacted one another, and where they could strengthen each other. And that was really what Tim and I were curious to see if we could create. And it turned out, we could so that was great.
Bobbi Hartshorne
In kind of talking to business leaders, we discovered three really important things. The first was the workplace wellbeing and employee wellbeing was top priority, or at least top five priority for every single business leader we spoke to. The second was that they were all completely overwhelmed by the amount of choice the amount of solutions, you might have conversation, the diversity of the discussion. And they were really struggling to navigate through to something that meant something to their own organization and their own situation. And the third thing was that a lot of them had already started and maybe even four or five years in have been investing in solutions and approaches and building teams and building structures around this stuff. But it wasn't actually really yielding what they kind of hoped. And so there was this kind of disillusionment or this paralysis happening where they were struck with this problem they just could not solve. And so after six months of research and diving into this topic, we've built a diagnostic system that brings those two factors together that organizational side and that employee side. And what we're able to offer organizations now is really comes down to clarity, being able to understand exactly what's happening in your organization, where the pain points are being created, where the challenges are arising from, and what the causation and outcomes of those are, what the cost of those are is to your organization, and then to help them to navigate through a strategic blueprint to a much more successful place to re redesign or redeploy their resources into the areas where it was going to have the most impact the quickest and then build from there. To where they wanted to go.
Matt Morley
Okay, and so you're beginning that process with a data collection phase. So presumably research and surveys, So you're getting both qualitative and quantitative data that gives you a baseline, right? And that forms part of the process or WISE process, as you call it, right? Where do you go on to?
Bobbi Hartshorne
Well, actually, there's a step before the data collection process, which we call the Y, phase for why. And really, this is this is often missing, as well, we discovered when we're doing our research is that quite often companies don't actually understand why it is that they're investing or think that they should be investing in workplace wellbeing. They they've either caught on to a trend, or they've spotted a specific issue such as engagement or resilience, or health, or they have a problem with something like productivity or engagement. And they go, Oh, well, wellbeing must be the answer. So because everybody's telling us that's the answer. But actually, when you start to talk to different employees across an organization, particularly at the senior level, you discover that there's actually quite a big difference in what they understand wellbeing is going to bring to the table, and some of them have got it, unfortunately, quite wrong. And some of them have got it right. But it's not aligned to their colleagues.
Bobbi Hartshorne
The other big Why is why are you doing what you're already doing? So a lot of organizations have already invested in this space they've already bought in consultants, they've already built a framework, they're already doing activities. But why did they choose that approach in the first place? And then why isn't it working? So we have to, we have to understand all of that before we can do the survey because what the survey then allows us to do is to dig into those issues a bit further, as well as just cover off the workplace wellbeing network that I already alluded to, with those those two sides.
Bobbi Hartshorne
Then once we've got those two factors, we can look at them together and say, well, you're saying you want to achieve x, but your current approach isn't doing that. And your employees are still struggling with this factor because of this situation. And so what we're then able to do is move on to the s the strategize element of the WISe process, and help them to use all of that insight, use that quantitative and qualitative insight and really drill down on a strategy that is going to help them achieve their why by unpacking the identified issues that we got at the ice stage, so so that's what we do. And then after we've done that, we've got a lovely strategy on a piece of paper. Well, it's it's next to useless when it's only on a piece of paper, it's now about engaging, it's the E phase of our why's process. You have to start engaging people. And there's two to send you two sets of people you need to engage. The first one, of course, is your employees. So how are you going to build them up, get them on board, get them bought into the process, get them contributing to it, and building a culture around wellbeing. And the second people, you have to engage professionals and specialists and that they could be you know, sleep specialists or office design specialists or manage management and leadership specialists, you know that there'll be a whole mixture of things so that that that phase is really important, as well. And it's really cool actually the way that that plays out, Matt, because those professionals that we bring in, and we've got network of people we can rely on, it's growing, seemingly daily, they don't come into an unknown quantity, they come in at the point that we've already understood the why we've already done all that quantitative data and analysis. So we're able to point them in the direction of the specific challenge that we're trying to target with their solution. So they're not trying to create a solution blind. They've got some real tangible insights themselves that make their impact much greater. And then once you've done all of that, and you've started to embed some different solutions, you're Of course going to want to know whether it's working. And that's where we bring in our reevaluation whether that's we won't rerun the whole system again, or whether we periodically, you know, look at a particular area on a smaller scale. And we can be quite agile with that now with technology and dashboards at our disposal to be able to dig in to a deeper or shallower level, depending on the need of the organization at that time.
Matt Morley
Is that then again, based on let's call it employee satisfaction, because often it's this question from the CEO CFO character. We're going to do all of this so what are the bottom line results we can expect?
Bobbi Hartshorne
the thing that is so awesome about wellbeing is that it improves almost anything that a CEO cares about. So a high wellbeing workforce is more productive, and more engaged, they're more satisfied, they're more innovative, they're more collaborative, they're more creative, they're far more likely to stay. So retention, they are also far more likely to recommend your employer or your workplaces somewhere for others to come in. So it helps with recruitment. And you get better team cohesion, you get better team creativity, and essentially, it just elevate everything. And if there's a specific thing that they're particularly targeting, so let's say they've got really low engagement or really low productivity, then we can certainly engineer this strategy initially, to specifically seek to drive improvements there. But what you find with wellbeing improved wellbeing in general is that as it as it elevates, it just pulls everything up. It's really, it's really quite fascinating in that in that regard. And the other thing that often is overlooked is it as a result of all of this, it drives the bottom line. So we know that organizations with high workplace wellbeing have 2% - 3% better performance on the stock market, better customer loyalty, and better sales performance. So it really does, you know, I'm really not trying to over egg the pudding here. But when you have a high wellbeing workforce, everything else tends to fall into place. And so that's why we really discourage people from focusing on just something like resilience, or just engagement or just productivity, and rather look at well being because your your, your dividends, your return for an investment in well being will be so much greater and so much broader than if you just try and pinpoint one specific problem and neglect the other elements of well being, too. Yeah, lots of claims.
Matt Morley
Okay. And so if we then dig a little bit deeper into the, the wellness practitioners, so in terms of the employee experience, apart from contributing to creating some initial baseline data around how things are performing in the office at the moment, then in terms of the lived experience, what they're engaging with these practitioners who come in, and perhaps you could just a hypothetical example, or a real life case study of perhaps that mix of 234 practitioners that you might bring in that would have an immediate impact on on the employee experience, or whether it's sort of if it's a fitness or wellness classes, or the environment that they're working in, because that at the end of the day is the process and action, isn't it? It's it's the staff, here it is that the changes are coming and whether that works or not, and whether you need to tweak it a little bit. So typically, how do you see that playing out?
Bobbi Hartshorne
Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting. on a case by case basis as to as to which practitioner which approach you choose to invest in and in what order you choose to take them on? Actually, the aside from practitioners, I'll come back to that in a moment. But actually, there's a huge amount that you can just do internally, you don't always need external help with this. Sometimes the results and the strategy is about actually assessing what's happening internally, and, and working out challenges that you've got internally, that you can actually fix yourself. So it's not always about saying right over to a handful of people who are going to rescue your business, because because a lot of the answers exists internally, and you've already got talent who can do that. But where there is gaps in your experience or your knowledge or their specialist areas that your your organization's not familiar with. It could be a real mixture of things that we're seeing a huge rise, for instance, in sleep practitioners, as we increasingly understand the power of good sleep and the cost of bad sleep on everything that is human about us. We're seeing as a result of COVID and this big conversation around hybrid working and trying to attract people back to the office. What even is an office now? This question has just come up in the last six months where what we've always considered to be an office the purpose of an office, what an office should do. has just been blown out of the water. And in order to attract people back to these places that we call offices, and we're having to get very creative about what they look like how they serve us what function they fulfill how they enable success, so you're gonna definitely have a big push in terms of office design, and environmental factors that help to drive those things
Bobbi Hartshorne
I think you're gonna definitely see a rise in the need for mental health support, compensation and benefits design is going to change because cash is no longer King, as I already alluded to, and then probably on the less traditional side, I think you're gonna start to see a rise in wellbeing scientists like myself, who can who can help people to unpack that data, you're going to have people who can assess your strategy as an organization, and how well being can help you to achieve that, I think we're probably going to see a lot more team practitioners as the role of teams, especially with a hybrid slash remote working changes and challenges that are coming in. And also one of the big areas, I suspect what's going to be leadership or management training, we're moving from Hero leadership to servant leadership. And that is a massive shift in how you act, how you think, what you do, the decisions you make the way that you lead. And that's a real big area of development that also and sustainable leadership, which I don't mean sustainable in terms of environmental sustainability, although, of course, that is very important. I mean, sustaining yourself as a leader, as the world of leadership just becomes so increasingly high pressured? How do you maintain your best leadership capabilities by by having high well being yourself? And how do you then invoke that sense of, it's good to have a high wellbeing workforce and sort of that gets moved down the organization? So yeah, so I think there's gonna be some interesting developments in in that space. And then finally, I think it's probably going to be a shift in HR practices, performance management, or rather, it should be performance optimization, and employer branding, recruitment strategies, and the design of the employee experience, they're all going to be things that I think are going to grow in terms of practitioner needs.
Matt Morley
You've been using the term wellbeing throughout this conversation. And I think it's, I've read something on your site recently, where you tried to pick apart the two concepts of wellness and wellbeing, it can seem not irrelevant, but it can seem that the two terms almost just merge into one. But I was interested to hear your thoughts on how you consider wellbeing to be perhaps more of a 360 view of physically and mentally in a good place versus wellness that was perhaps more limited.
Bobbi Hartshorne
Yeah, I think how many, it's really hard now, because as you said, wellbeing and wellness is sometimes used interchangeably, but actually, they do have slightly different definitions. And they definitely have different histories. And for me, wellness generally refers to sort of an individual person's physical and to a degree mental wellbeing. Whereas wellbeing has a broader and deeper meaning than wellness as it incorporates life satisfaction, accomplishment, motivation, purpose, engagement
Bobbi Hartshorne
I think wellbeing is something that's more easily applied to groups, which when we think about the workplace is important in terms of the wellbeing dynamics of teams who are being dynamics of departments of offices of regions, etc. So, you know, there's there's that kind of dual individual versus group application of wellbeing that's harder to express in wellness terms. I mean, the International Labor Organization describes workplace wellbeing as related to all aspects of working life from the quality and safety of the physical environment, to how workers feel about their work, their working environment, the climate at work and working organization. And why does it matter? Well, because the lens with which you understand wellbeing or wellness, it really doesn't matter what you call it, but the lens by which you understand it is going to massively influence your strategic approach to it. The types of practitioners you engage in the types of consultants you gain, you engage the data that you're looking for, if it's if it's understood in the more limited historic realms of wellness, there is a risk that you will miss out on the opportunities to explore Read through that much deeper lens of what we call well being. And typically we see well being referred to in the science and the data as opposed to wellness. So I kind of tend to feel that it's a slightly more rigorous subject. Well being as a more rigorous subject and wellness.
Matt Morley
Yeah, I get it. I like that. And we haven't touched on your location. But you obviously straddling two countries, in a sense between the UK and Dubai, the UAE. Now, how do you see those two locations differing in terms of interpretations of workplace well being? Are you seeing certain things that have much more relevance or importance in the UAE versus in the UK, for example, or vice versa?
Bobbi Hartshorne
You know, what, in many ways, it's not as different as you might expect. And there's some strengths and benefits to both that have sort of come out actually, in the last four or five months that I've observed, the thing we have to understand is that well being is universal. how we approach it, how we solve it, how we understand it, how we address it, the degree to which we're open to do that varies from culture, to culture, but the actual ingredients are factors that contribute to a human's well being are, are the same the world over. And, you know, our cities and any major city anywhere in the world that has a diverse cultural population is going to have issues and challenges and opportunities because of that. variance.
Bobbi Hartshorne
My, my gut feeling is that a lot of the issues are prevailing, the world over, they're not unique to particular cultures. So again, coming back to this shift from Hero leadership to servant leadership, that is happening in the West as much as it's happening here. race and gender inequalities that are still prevailing the world over old habits, dying hard in in kind of very highly bureaucratic, very highly hierarchical issues. These exists here as much as they exist in the West. For me, I think the only major hurdle is that there is probably a slightly delayed discourse here. And that may be the conversation hasn't been as open for as long in the Middle East, in the Gulf region, as it has been in the West. So people's kind of openness or understanding or literacy around the topic is maybe slightly lower here. But in some ways that actually map presents an opportunity for this region, because because the well being conversation and the understanding of well being has matured so quickly, and our data and best practice, evolution has been so fast. Actually, I find that sometimes the West is carrying a bit of old baggage in this space. And a little bit of like, Well, we've been on this journey for five years now. And nothing's changed or little has changed. And so there's a frustration there. Whereas the Gulf region is joining the conversation at a much more advanced stage and a much deeper understanding of the science behind it. And so they don't have to shed their baggage before they can engage at this higher level, which in many ways could present a really, really cool opportunity for them to leapfrog some of the resistance that we may be seeing in the West. And actually, that has definitely played out. I have had more attraction and interest and engagement from organizations in this region, including Saudi and the UAE than I have yet had in the UK, where you would expect the conversation to be much more mature.
Matt Morley
Nice. Sounds like you're you could be in the right place at the right time. So really insightful conversation. So thank you so much for your time, how can people reach out and contact you? Where can they find you online?
Bobbi Hartshorne
Yeah, so the best place to contact us is bewellwise.com we've got some really great free resources for people there, we've got a free to download white paper, which explores the current challenges with wellbeing and how to improve them. We've got a online self assessment tool where people can go in and answer a handful of questions and then get some tailored advice into their emails.
Matt Morley
Alright, listen, thanks so much for your time. It's been fun!